Of trying to migrate a community to uh Bluesky. And we wanted to hear from other people that are also working with our communities and trying to build community on Bluesky and we're on Twitter or our other social networks. Yeah, and hear from you also what works, what uh yeah, what what insights do you have from your experience. So I'll I'll start and I'll kind of continue that question about Skyfollower Bridge. So I think that's a really cool tool. Um, but I think one of the challenges with it is if people are joining after you've searched, then they don't appear.
You have to go research. So I'm a PhD student, but I've on the side been slowly working towards a tool that is it has to work similarly in the case of X because X you can't export your followers and get username handles. It gives you um gibberish numbers. Um other platforms they they actually export uh user handles. Um so there's a little bit of uh complexity there in terms of data management from uh uh EU perspective that you have to handle. And so I've been thinking through a little bit of this. I kind of did a vibe-coded version and now I'm like slowly thinking through like building this up as an actual system where you know Bluesky and Skylight and all these different AT Protocol apps can actually implement this as like a notification that you can get, oh someone just joined, now you can follow them or automatically follow them or whatever.
Um there's a lot of really cool um implementations too of like verifying that you are who you as your Bluesky handle and your DID, you're associated with this LinkedIn account. And if we can get that as like a verified authenticated match, that makes it a lot easier to find those matches because sometimes the handles are a little bit different, especially since we can have domain handles on Bluesky, that changes the equation a little bit. So that is something I've been thinking about personally in trying to like move people over, is like I want to be notified when someone is coming to Bluesky, and not only that, I want them sorted in order of who's actually posting, not just who's here.
I think that would also help with what you said, Scott. Like if someone moves over to Bluesky and people get notified, they would get followed, and then you get that dopamine hit of like, oh people are engaging with me and they like they like to see me here. So yeah, there's something there maybe. Yeah, and I think I want to um pick up on on one thing that that we're probably need to engage with like almost kind of a hosting um like the welcoming committee, if you will. Um, you know, kind of that that piece um because that was a uh a common refrain I heard, like, oh it's just uh I don't get engagement, nobody, you know, like nothing happens.
And it's like, well, yeah, you're you're new, and you know, like you might have had you know um other platforms and they engaged a certain way, but um for that kind of fertile ground to have people that kind of are engaged, like, oh yeah, like let's jump in, like welcome. Um I remember like during the the entire phase of when we were trying when we you know in beta when we're still had the invites and we're bringing people over um in for science twitter and that, you know, people actually set up like you know high sci sky where it's like you're new here, tell us what you do.
Um and that I think was one of the ways that kind of set the ground a little bit is like yeah, this is what I do, and you just you kind of follow that and enough people were doing it. You didn't necessarily have to have the entire community do it, but the bigger ecosystem was kind of popping in and saying, we're glad you're here. So I guess how am I supposed to hold this? Uh yeah, just not at the bottom. Um three kind of general reflections or like reactions to Scott's talk and thinking about so I'm the I'm Maria Antoniak, um, I'm a computer scientist at the University of Colorado Boulder.
Um I work in natural language processing um or otherwise known as AI now. Um so that's my academic community. I'm coming from like NLP machine learning Twitter and now the AI, AI, the AI social media community. And so thinking about how that community has migrated or not migrated. That community has not migrated very well. Um and I think there are a few reasons there's a lot of reasons for that. And there's also a lot of mystery. Like if I knew all the answers, then I would I would already have them all in Bluesky. Um but so one of the things is in the industry connections in our research community.
So of course a lot of what is happening in AI is to do with what is happening in industry and that what is happening in research is also connected to what is happening in industry. And so I think there's a general sense that you know if you want to be in the know, if you want to know what's happening in industry, if you want those kind of connections, if you're one of these like sorry, but like grifters and hangers on who start up whatever, whatever. Um there's this feeling that you need to be on X, and that's where people are.
Um so I think that is genuinely difficult to break away from. Um starter packs. We tried this and it worked initially. Like I think there was also this sense of like ooh, there's this like uh prestigious list. And I want to be part of the prestigious list. Or you know, I see that there are important people on that list, and I also want to be on that list, and I want to be in the place where this list is. And so we had temporarily a lot of movement when we had this. I was the one running our NLP starter pack.
And then there was like a lot of backlash. Um, not just for NLP, I think other people starter packs in general, like they have some kind of design um limitations and some problems, at least at that time around like if you were added to a starter pack, you didn't know that you were added to a starter pack, and um and you would suddenly get a thousand new depending on who you were, you might get like a thousand new mysterious followers overnight. A lot of them not anyone that you know or connected to, and suddenly your posts are getting a lot more attention, sometimes very negative attention.
So I don't know. I think we need something like a starter pack, but and sorry, one more thing. And then think about welcoming committee as well. I think about like old days of Twitter and like they were like follow Friday. What's that? Like hashtag follow Friday and fear of five accounts that you should follow. There were all these kind of things on Twitter that I just on one hand we could be like, okay, well, we should do that too. Like we but I don't know that it translates to our modern time and just like the way that we operate on social media.
Like it even when I say that loud, right? It sounds like cringy. Um I don't know what the right way is. Like I'm not the right cool person to do non-cringy things, but like someone should be thinking about that and replacing those old welcoming committee procedures with something new. Um just to call out Francisco. If you want to join this panel as someone who's on Twitter, like feel free to hop in. I don't want to put you on the spot, but just yeah, feel free if you want to crash the party. Okay. Well, it's easier because we have the mic.
Yeah. Yeah, it's come up. We're pulling in a guest for the audience on stream. Uh pulling in a phoning a friend. I I don't guarantee I'll please introduce yourself. Introduce myself. Yeah. Hello. Um I am uh Francisco. I'm a heavy Twitter user. Twitter users anonymous. Uh sorry? Intervention right now. It is an intervention. No, no, I I've been so excited about Bluesky for five years. And you know, a lot of my motivations are around getting to later sovereignty, right? And moving the discourse that I think is important off of Twitter and to Bluesky. Yeah.
And I do, you know, I have a background in AI safety and tools for thought and community building. Uh and so this is just all kind of my wheelhouse a little bit. But thoughts about the sort of some of the resist resistance. The resistance, yeah. Yeah. Uh so obviously there's just the network effects, the the Matthew effects, right? The winner winner takes all like it's much more worth it for me to to post on Twitter, I get rewarded a lot more uh with attention. Uh the the way I've been uh hoping to approach this is uh if I show that there are cool enough modes of interaction elsewhere uh with with open data, uh it could be Bluesky, it could be through custom data sovereignty solutions, like the community archive, which is something that I did for my Twitter community.
Um yeah, if you if you show new use cases, then people might be persuaded by the the extra value. Yeah. Yeah, so I think that gets to kind of this idea of whether we're just trying to replicate Bluesky or replicate Twitter on Bluesky, or are we trying to do something different? And I think a lot of us here understand that the AT Protocol offers a lot more than what Twitter itself could offer. And so how do we start building out these systems to attract other people and how do we get out that knowledge? I think that is one big struggle maybe for some of us here is we're only on the AT Protocol now.
We're not posting anywhere else. So how do we get these other people who are on the other platforms over here? And I know in in my community research-wise, I'm chemical engineering and like computational biology, a lot of them are on LinkedIn. They moved off of X, but they're on LinkedIn. And when I go and look at those posts, they're long posts. They're not 300 characters. And so I think Leah has uh extended lexicon that allows you to do longer posts. And so that I think is definitely an attractor for a lot of scientists. They do they post long posts and they don't really love threads.
Also just want to throw in another question of the mix before we get on to kind of solutions. I was also uh because we talked in our kind of some of our pre-conversations about uh young researchers and like their new social media habits or lack thereof, and uh yeah, also just kind of putting that in and maybe yeah, if you also have some insights there. Yeah, I think um that was a piece that uh that came to me because as I saw like engaging the people that actually did have large presences on Twitter that had dropped off, you know.
Um I think they had kind of like just washed their hands, like I don't know if I want to do that game again. Um and like that, there were multiple reasons for that kind of disengagement. Um and I think engage like we should be looking at the younger, the the actual doc students and undergrads and like giving them a a chance because they're gonna be the ones that actually build the stuff, they're gonna be the ones that are gonna have the ideas like let's reinvent the wheel here. Um and that's what I think where you can get people really interested in it.
So you know, we we might have actually passed a torch moment um of like the opportunity to really reconstitute it. But I think we can take some of the pieces and make something better. Um and I think just one other side I had was that the you know the challenge really comes down to is like it's kind of similar to somebody who is really into coffee, right? And and like you know, grinds their own um beans and does the you know very particular way that they brew it. Um, you know, I think that's this community. We're very into what the AP protocol can do.
Um, but if you try to explain that too much, it it really overwhelms people. Like, why would I want to do that? Like, I mean, like so you're telling me it's it's always out there, and like they people know when I block and and it's like yeah, but that's actually there's some benefit. And I ran into that several times when I'm trying to explain to people. It's like finding that balance of like you want to try it. And like, you know, people might, you know, for example, a kind of ventilated seat in your car, like, why would I ever need that?
You take a three-hour drive, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that now I get it. But you gotta be there to try it out because otherwise it just doesn't click. So yeah, thinking about um like junior researchers, younger people. Again, there's this there's kind of the marketing problem of like blue skies seen it, I guess, as like millennial. And I don't know, I can't solve that problem. I don't know what to do about that. Um, but then we've tried to get feedback. Um, I I try to talk to more junior students, younger people about like how they feel about social media and Bluesky in particular.
And I wouldn't say have like a full picture, but part of what I hear, well, part of it I think is just in general, the community is fractured, and um there are other things going on, especially in the US, where like anyone on a visa posting on social media at all is very scary, potentially very high consequence act right now. So there's that whole background, but usually what I hear is like, oh, it feels scary or feels like you're up on a stage or and to some extent, I do think we have some new challenges like what I was just mentioning, but also some of these are just they they actually may not be unique to right now.
And I can remember when I was a junior student, I just lurked. Of course, yeah, I also felt nervous, and I wasn't gonna just like chime in to random conversations between senior researchers. I lurked, and that was fine, and I gained a lot from that. So there needs to be so maybe on one hand, like it's okay, that's not a new thing for people more newer to a community to be more nervous about posting or joining, interacting in the community. But then what we can do as more senior people or who are people who are more comfortable posting and being active is to you know give them give them something to gain from being there.
So interacting with each other, having conversations, posting about papers, posting papers of junior researchers, and trying to also build infrastructure to support that kind of sharing or encourage that kind of sharing. I think that's one of the reasons that Paper Sky just is so great, right? Like highlighting papers. And that gives a clear gain to people. So I'm actually not that much younger really, but I am a current PhD student, and since I was like applying you know a few years ago, or I don't I don't know what time is four years ago. Oh god. Yeah, so I was applying like five years ago, and what I can say is that I was pretty much on Instagram.
Um so it's a very visual-based community. Um, but it there is a very large, wonderful ecosystem of women scientists, scientist communicators who were posting things to just help other these were PhD students who had just started posting to help other people who are interested in PhDs to get into their PhD programs, just talking about their experiences, talking about the different types of programs, different situations that occur with all the different programs that exist and that kind of thing. And what I found is most of them are still on Instagram. Um I've I've seen a few try to come over and they don't get engagement, so they're like, why be here?
Because uh there's also a fair amount of overlap with okay, like how can I use this to monetize? Like how can I use this for extra income? I'm a PhD student. I don't have a lot of free time, so if I'm gonna be making this content, that content takes a lot of time. I've done it, it takes a lot of time to make uh the quality content that these students were making. Um so being able to kind of get some incentive to do that is pretty beneficial. So if you come over from Instagram to Bluesky and then no one's liking anything, it's just kind of like I'm not making money and no one's seeing it, what's the point?
Um so one of the things I've been trying to work on is a custom feed that's PhD chatter, and I know on Twitter like people just like used a hashtag, and then over time it became like algorithmic where you didn't necessarily need to do that. Um so kind of what people did when they came over to Bluesky was just try to do hashtag-based feeds. But what ends up happening is those end up being chronological feeds where people aren't getting the content that they want. Like it kind of sometimes feels like you're getting ad blasted a little bit.
Um, and so what I've been working on is more of a regx like uh uh semantic style uh matching of like langu, like common language that you might use when talking about research when talking about your dissertation, your PhD paper, um, what you're doing in your academic career, um, and then filtering that from people's bios to just pull in, okay, this is a PhD student. Let's filter out the professors. But I think even if you're filtering out the professors, sometimes knowing that they can see it is a little bit of a deterrent because especially as an undergrad, I know I was like the brief moments I spent on Twitter actually was probably pre-undergrad, and like I wouldn't want any professor or teacher seeing what I was saying.
I was just whining because I needed to whine. And so I think we also need those like closed permission spaces really to attract um different groups to give them that space to be free and feel comfortable. Um but we also need to kind of like grow how we how do we get people to find these feeds? Um the search is not very good. Uh and so how do we get people even exposed to these things and finding the people that they can connect with that aren't necessarily people they're already connected with, and I think that was a thing people found Twitter uh very useful for that hasn't necessarily existed as much yet on um Bluesky, at least in the academic sense, I think that's very much been built, building up from existing networks rather than trying to expand and grow networks.
And then uh Eugene has a practice of like trying to find junior researchers papers and posting about them and maybe we can do more of that somehow and make it more rich like I don't know, feeds that promote young researchers or give them more engagement somehow. I think again, gain or showing like I've um through Bluesky got to know some junior PhD students and we're now collaborating through like you know nice little social media interactions. So I I don't know, somehow like showing the rest of them that this is possible. It's to your benefit to be posting about stuff.
You want people to see your papers. You there's a lot to gain by being on there, even if you aren't posting all the time. There's um a nice hack. Uh barely a hug, but replying to people uh on the topic of oh, you know, making content is expensive. Umbody sees my posts. When you're a small account, you want to reply to bigger accounts, and that's kind of how you give yourself to know uh for other people. Um this you could have good reply game, right? Like you you you've gotta you've gotta reply appropriately, like like it's improv or something, you know, like in a yes and kind of way you want to be supporting the person you're replying to.
You're you you want to be adding something to the conversation. Uh and this is one of you know a basket of norms that um kind of s support the generative like intellectual environment online, right? Uh and the norms aren't necessarily the same as they are in real life because you have a different set of affordances, you know. I almost wonder if that's a way that you can kind of build this up is you know, we have these um, you know, kind of pitches and sessions usually at conferences where it's like kind of the junior members and students, you know, how do you kickstart your career?
Um this would be valuable content. Like I mean it I think that's one of the age pieces is like Twitter started off like nobody knew what it what it was and it kind of evolved into like oh this can actually be powerful. Um so I think you if we'd all rolled the the clock back you know five or ten years and we're like we were coming in from this, like, okay, I need to do this, but I don't know how. And like I don't want to mess up. And I think and like particularly in in you know Twitter, the the the actual incentive structure is conflict.
So it is about like even if you were like an undergrad, you might have somebody jump on you out of the blue with this huge account and you're just like what did I do? Um and that's why I think like you know, the Leah features are are phenomenal in that way because it it is in that that sense like let's give you a little bit more control. Like, do you want to stand up like no, that's wrong, and here's why, and like I'm gonna get in this, or like I'm not up for this and I just need you to go away and then before this goes on.
And so you you have that lever, which I think um could be a piece that that does help cultivate the next generation. I'm just having one more thought about this right now, which is like yeah, maybe it's just all wrong for especially for uh like if we're not the junior people to be worrying about why aren't junior people how do we make it cool. Um and instead like I could think you know any academic in the room, if you organize a talk series or cloak it and like why is no one coming? How do I get to see like you need to get the faculty to come.
If their advisors are on Bluesky, they're gonna be on Bluesky. So maybe we should just focus on that. How do we get the senior researchers who are comfortable posting, clearly, because they're posting on X or LinkedIn. How do we get them on Bluesky? We can open it up to the crowd if people want to talk ask questions. I just think it's a really good point about that. It's how us as senior academics know what's necessary. I was thinking about how we need to also avoid trying to put like a square peg into a round hole with this kind of stuff.
And maybe the solution for uh in career, for instance, you see there are a lot of different trends in training use. I don't think we use that any of this very well these days. Um I think I see things like the uh group chats at all, okay, people in chat and basically feel safer now. It makes me wonder if things like Rumi somehow be adapted to work the chat spaces and the tools and as results. I think we wouldn't even think about you to have these same spaces because I agree. I agree with what Carol Hi.
Hi. Yeah, let me know. Sorry. So to summarize uh kind of the comment and question for the stream. Emily was just uh kind of reiterating the point of okay, yeah, like as an undergrad, it was so overwhelming to be able to like to post and then know like some big professor could like see this and like do something about it. Maybe we can use Rumi as a potential avenue for like providing group chats, which seem maybe more popular with the younger generations and provide a more private space for them to interact while still being on the same platform where their professors are.
So I I don't actually know what Rumi uh does. Uh I'm assuming it's like on App Pro. Select Discord. Cool. Yeah. Well, I I think a lot about the um the dark forest problem, which is basically this that the open internet, you know, opens you up to surveillance and to unwanted attention. Uh and um you know the there's the dark forest collective who kind of write about this a bit and then they the the usual answer they give is oh people retreat to the cozy web, which is group chats, right? Uh one thing that bothers me about that solution is that you don't get discovery uh and you know the contributions you make in in the safety of your group child don't necessarily percolate uh to you know the knowledge commons, right?
Uh unless someone takes the link you just posted or takes a screenshot and repost it to some some other group chat. So uh I think I think it's really important to figure out if there's something in between uh you know the open internet and uh group chats. And I think we have someone from Rumi in the room. Oh yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I love this comment. I totally agree. Um that's that's such a critical part of why we're making Rumi on Ad proto. Like this is what we want. We like we know that communities want to work together to to create stuff and if that's a community of researchers like you know working on a problem, whether it's like within an academy or some other context, like um people creating ideas together and like chat for us, like we create chat because we feel that chat is the lowest barrier of entry um to contributing to a to a discussion and we want to create roomy, you know, I'm not trying to just sell roomie, but like yeah, to say like um we can we can do that and then progressively like build in the structure and we can keep refining on our ideas and move to like publishing to the broader ecosystem.
Um wanna get have these ideas but not lose them, not like lose that knowledge and yeah, to be cultivating, cultivating knowledge and sharing it with whoever we want to collaborate with in the broader world. So I just wanted to say like, yeah, thank you for your comment. Like, yeah, we're right with you. Thanks for thanks for building it. Uh the comments from the So um I don't really have too much of a horse in this, but I just follow a lot of scientists on X and Bluesky. And this is I just want to preface this by saying, you know, I don't think that people shouldn't do this.
But and this is gonna be a bit brusque, but you know, I was just thinking about the stuff about the starter pack and the stuff about like creating cultural norms and I'm kind of just like gonna drive the dagger in. It's like you know, with the starter packs, when you follow them and you know that they're all like seasoned micro bloggers, you're like, okay, if I hit this starter pack follow, am I going to get a lot of like good science and new emerging science stuff, or am I going to get like a bunch of crash-outs from ex addicts who are like dashboard trauma.
Right. I'm thinking like is there something we can do about like how to like rehabilitate people who have been using microblogging for a long time to make it more comfortable for finding cool stuff. And also just maintain like you know, like I don't want to say you can't do it, you've earned it, you know, you've done a lot of great stuff, but also we see a lot of it already. So if there's like new interfaces, new norms that can be done about this.
I had a joke earlier, I was gonna say, you know, ask Maria like was she doing um machine learning uh starter pack number one, two, four, five. The original. Um that was one of the thing I noticed too is that um we did spill over and and there was kind of jockeying for like prestige, like oh you gotta make it onto the the the you know that list. Um so that is uh you know part of the challenge. Um I think uh it's something where you know to get back to the kind of roomy piece. I I like the idea of you know creating space for people to get their bearings, you know, you almost have to let you have to figure out your identity, you know.
Are you going to be um you know what hats are you gonna wear? And I think the people that I see that enjoy it the most um switch those out. They're like, yeah, I'm a scientist, but uh, I was talking about at lunch. You know, one of the people my feed that's actually does did stick around um is huge into vintage computers and he will post his uh weekends are full of going in there and showing off those computers. And so that's just you know that it's related to his job, but that's just his passion. And I think oh letting people figure out that identity, like I'm not gonna be, you know, like I I've gotta be the um PhD student in this.
I've gotta represent my field and my school. And like it's okay to to to show off your knitting to to show you what you're enjoyed with. Uh and I think that space is needed. Yeah, so I'm gonna play off that in a second, but I just want to mention that we did have a break plant now, so if you need a break, please go take a break. We are gonna continue with the talks at three promptly. Um but yeah, so I think like the thing that is wonderful about Bluesky is you know I did feel a lot of that pressure to just be one person and post about one thing on Instagram because these things have one algorithm.
They see what you're posting about, and that's the algorithm. Like you can't change what you're doing. Like I saw many people go through this of like just having multiple accounts to post about all these different things. And I could never do that. Like I just like am incapable of having multiple accounts and posting multiple things. So I find Bluesky like a very welcoming in that respect. If I can post whatever, and if you don't want to see some content, don't follow me, just use feeds where you see my posts. Like I think there's a lot of people here at Mosphere Conference where I don't actually follow them, but I regularly interact with them because I use the Atmosphere feed that I've made where I can see all of their relevant posts to me.
And sometimes I'll follow them, but I like to keep my follow list very low so I don't get overwhelmed. And I don't really want to see political content because I get very overwhelmed. Um but like I post I actually don't post that much science, but that's because my science is hard. Um and also I haven't published anything yet, which we love open science and we would love to do that. Um doing it is hard. Um yeah, so I mostly post AT science stuff. Sometimes I post art, sometimes I post I don't know. I don't even know what I do.
Um but yeah, I think to that point of like starter packs, every time there was a starter pack, I know like there was one for a few that I was interested in, and I always converted them to a list. I didn't want to be forced to follow every single person because then you also are following. I think the default is that you see everyone's reposts and their replies in your following feed, immediately turn those off. But I don't think that's necessarily something everyone was doing, and so I think there was also some amount of people just not using Bluesky because they'd go to their following feed and it's just retweets of all the horrors of the world because there's a lot of them and that's valid, but once you've seen it once you know it, okay, go do what you can about it.
You don't need to keep seeing it like do something, don't just drown. Um But yeah, so starter packs not my favorite. I do like lists and I do like feeds. Um and if you want to talk to me about making a feed, I can help you with that. I think we have more questions. So we have two more comments from the from the room, and then maybe somebody of you wants to close the panel and then go to the break and the next session will start at three p.m. So we have one, two more. Thank you.
I'd like to make a hypothesis. And that is that some of the the challenges that you've described and the solutions that you've described are bounded within the uh ways that the Bluesky app itself works. And we've talked a lot about protocol and backend and techie nerd stuff here. But I wonder if you have any thoughts about whether a different app view, different interface is something that, for instance, could put longer form posts side by side with short posts or whatever might help ease the onboarding and community building. Yes. I gave a talk this morning about Leah, which is a app view that tries to build in a lot of our various learnings and wishes for customization for research specific uses.
So check out that talk. I'll say it too. One thing that that's also emerged from seeing so like Richard Farrow does the med sky community and he's a machine. He's got like 70 feeds, and he did the Olympics feed, and he does Latin Sky. And so Richard, I don't know if you're watching on the stream, but you know, hats off to you. But um the reason I bring it up is because uh he's taking um nuance from BlackSky too and seeing like, oh, there's gonna be some really cool stuff we can do there with labelers and like verified users and um, you know, because he's also concerned about medical information misinformation.
Um so how do you fight that? And so uh that's I think the um iceberg that we're standing on is like they there's a lot of depth here. There's a lot of opportunity, and it it sometimes becomes overwhelming with that there's almost too many tools for us to engage with, like which ones are effective, which ones are gonna work. I think we have to kind of build it, like uh Maria's done and see. You know, like what is it what resonates with the community? What do they need? Um that's what I think you know, how we get there.
Yeah, so I think Leah is a really good direction, and I really like the idea of you know being able to do embedded lexicons because then we're taking advantage of this AT Protocol ecosystem, but we're leveraging it in a very AT science format. Um and I'll just mention Richard also runs the STEM labelers feed, which I think is stem labels.xyz. I could be wrong on that, but it you can find me if I'm wrong and ask me later. Um but he also runs that feed, or sorry, not that feed, that labeler, which also has lists for each one, and so I would like to encourage you all if you are scientists of any kind, you know, as we mentioned earlier, don't have to be a traditional scientist.
Um, grab a label. I know it's a little bit difficult right now to find the labels. I'd like to think about how we can uh uh move that to a easier to access system. And I think that's one challenge that we have as a a science community is we are generally scientists at our core. We have jobs that are in science, so we we're often overloaded with work already as researchers, and so um being able to connect with the wider developer community and have them get interested in this and have us have them help us build these things because we are much more limited in our time.
Um and then that gets into of course questions of funding. Okay, how do we make sure these developers are getting funded? Um but really building those bridges I think is also beneficial for science as a science. You know, well, we can start building like the open science stuff that was being talked about earlier. We can start making these modular data connections and evidence linking to claims and all of these things if we are working people with people who know science who know development, but then also taking people who are really just mostly science and people who are really mostly just developers and bringing us all together, I think is really how we move um and make like these app views and get people attracted to it.
Um because I think you're right, like Bluesky by itself, that's what people know. So there's always this challenge of okay, how do we get them to know? Well, you have this Bluesky account, but you can just use Leah, which gives you your science that you want. I think yeah, well, no, one more question.
Okay. So this is, I don't know, comment or discussion. I don't know. So I I've heard today a lot of discussion around um governance, around the sciences. Um basically, you know, how do we make sure we like have full control over our research and the documentation with it and make sure you know it's getting wrong hands, you know, hide from AI training, for example. Um and then kind of the segue always goes into Roomi and such. So um one of the things this one for uh full disclosure, North Sky Social. I'm working on a private permission data service.
Um so with that is basically it's like a permission layer, you know, where you can kind of like define communities or groups, and so this is where uh you know we're doing with the goal of like you know for you know marginalized communities that are always basically being targeted. Um one thing for me is like I'm always some I'm basically like looking at other use cases for it. So I remember I talked to Torsten last month at the Berlin atproto meetup um around what they're doing with both like papers and document and documents, which doesn't quite fit for how it works.
Um this is where I say like general comments like if there are other use cases from the sciences that actually would fit this, I'm very eager to also discuss that. Um I'm doing some also my spare time. Um but it's always something that's like once we kind of get it, it's actually being developed in the open, everything's out or the tools aren't out there. But uh I would be keen to kind of see what else can actually be supported for it because it's basically being developed as like as like primitives that anything can actually be used for it.
Okay. Oh, did you cool? I just had one closing thought if we're thinking about like why scientists are migrating or not great migrating. I think we might also overestimate their understanding of anything about atproto and Atmosphere. Like when I've told people I'm going to Atmosphere conf, even people who are very active on Bluesky have no idea what Atmosphere is. So we might be there there might be a lot more marketing that we can do. There are already strong movements in science for like open science, and so if we can sell things the right way and make it clear, and that's something that like custom apps can also let us do.
We can do that marketing and emphasize certain features in ways that Bluesky does not. I think we're closing up from now. So just um so we'll yeah, we'll move on to the next session. We also have a session upstairs with Matthew Lowry. Um yeah, maybe we can give a round of applause first. Thank you. Please continue in the end conference if you if you have more thoughts on this. Um yeah, now we just have a parallel session upstairs with Matthew Lowry about uh sustainability and building research institutions on app proto and what that looks like.
Uh so be a few interesting speakers there. And uh here we'll have some uh researchers telling us about their PhD research on App Proto and Bluesky. So it'll be interesting.